4.3232 litre stroker kit

[TuFFVP]

Hey guys,

I'm currently in the process of doing up my NA V6. I've been looking at all the mods you guys have done to the car.. and so far it seems that you've missed a few things.

There's one clear example. The 4.3 litre stroker kit! Why didn't we investigate this.

According to the crank maker, not only is the crank actually tougher with the new grind, apart from the displacement figures, the stock motor with a slightly modified cam to produce torque evenly across the rev range (as the standard holen cam made power only to 3700) they produced 170BHP! 5 more than a V8 at the wheels! TOTALLY STOCK

So perhaps we could see v6 veng 2? With the stroker crank included?

I'm not aware of any driveline modifcations other than I saw a picture in one of your mags with the engine out and there appeared to be a stally converter of some kind in there. But what about the diff? Did we do anything to it? Stage2,3 shift kits? I can't remember if you've done that sorta stuff, so that's why I'm asking.

Anyways there was some other mods that I've done/come up with I can't remember now, but if I remember I'll post.

Oh there was one thing, 10mm ignition leads, and 4 point spark plugs.

Got the plugs in mine, and gotta say, difference noted.

Not to mention bosh have done tests, where the plugs have lasted 150,000 MILES without needing a voltage increase.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.. also I think 13's is going to be easy.. especially if you did a stroker kit.

Money permitting, I'm aiming for the 12 second brakect. IT CAN BE DONE :)

[fred]

I think Scott did actually look into the cranks but I don't think Awesome Automotive wanted to know about it. Plus they are expensive.

Diff is a VL Turbo diff with 3.45 gears.

Tranny is a T700 built for racing and with full manual valve body. Also has 3000rpm stall.

Motor.........what hasn't been modified or tinkered with in some way?!?! It makes 144rwkw anyway. It's got the usual bolt on's plus a bigger cam and head porting. Custom triple TB manifold is coming soon too. (When?????)

The rest of the small bits are in the mags.

[blownvn]

Basically what Fred (V6 Vengeance publicity manager) said.

As for the stroker crank being stronger, well bickham may have some issues with that. I'm interested in trying the the stroker but I'm not going to push an untested product if I still have to pay full price for it. It might sound mercenary of me, but I don't get paid to do V6 Vengeance, I do it on my own wallet and with parts donations from some suppliers, and the publicity involved in V6 Vengeance running a Stroker set-up would be huge.

At the moment the only person who has run one looks like they may have broken it first time out at the track, if this is the case then I'm doubly reluctant to put my hand in my pocket for a crank.

[sleeper]

I agree 100%.
Bickham, your turn for a say in this.
His crank did go bang (or something related) so there is no way I would be going for one either.
Im running another 80kw atw on top of bickhams in my vn v6 s1 and have a dead standard with NOTHING done to it crank. I have never had any dramas what so ever with numerous runs down the strip and a fair amount of nitrous.
Just worries me Bickham had a part failure on his 1st outing.....

[dogsballs]

we should be careful here, as of yet the cause of the engine failure hasn't been determined (i'm still in process of trying to get it sorted out), however there is a good chance it was the crank.

A nodular iron crank is supposed to be stronger than an OE application, if you were mega serious, i'd get a billet 3.8 or 4.3 crank from SCAT in the states, but big $$$.

[Locksmiff]

Originally posted by bickham
A nodular iron crank is supposed to be stronger than an OE application, if you were mega serious, i'd get a billet 3.8 or 4.3 crank from SCAT in the states, but big $$$. Or...................That is a yes I have gone further with my cube sizing ;) and how to achieve it with a happy mix of a crank from another motor and some cylinder boring.

[dogsballs]

supposedly you could get up to 4.5 with the bradey crank, with even shorter custom pistons and custom rods, plus a 60thou over bore (which is a bit risky, increasing the risk of splitting between the bores). Locksmiff good to see that the research has payed off.

[sleeper]

I was thinking of a forged crank that the formula holden guys use to use. As you said Dale, $$$$$$. Decided against at the time.
An further updates on the problem or cause mate?
p.s. hope the UK is treating you well.;)

[MPRSIV]

Also agree 100% with Fred, Blownvn, sleeper & bickham. Thought of the formula holden one but after discussions with a couple of engine builders who seen to know what they are talking about with V6's, I settled for linishing the original crank and shot peening the original rods. All is still good so far and Hp is on the increase.:) :)

[TuFFVP]

With the heads, did you go with oversized valves or standard?

Was the static ratio raised with pistons etc? I can't remember..

And what about an elec water pump? I know these are somewhat expensive, but the most expensive I've seen is 400 bux, and that was three years ago.. and I've seen some adds from memory where they were about 200 bux.. even cheaper.

Also custom pulley kit? I know GFB does em for rex's etc.. but any good fitter and turner should be able to make some up.

Can't remember if power steering and a/c was removed?

I think the balance shaft was given the flick wasn't it?

I'm just trying to get the total picture, on what hasn't/has been done.

Also the ignition system.. standard?

One thing I know you aren't running is the bosh super 4 plugs. I've got these in mine, and they make a fair difference, with the actual longevity of the plug, as it has a very good self cleaning effect with the spark jumping sideways. Bosch did tests where the plug lasted longer than 150,000 miles, ie, fired for 150,000 miles without required a voltage increase.

Also the leads.. 10mm? or standard can't remember.

Anyways, I keep getting ideas poppin into my head.. but I keep forgettting to post em, so if I have anymore questions.. hehe i'll b back :)

[blownvn]

Originally posted by TuFFVP
With the heads, did you go with oversized valves or standard?

Was the static ratio raised with pistons etc? I can't remember..

And what about an elec water pump? I know these are somewhat expensive, but the most expensive I've seen is 400 bux, and that was three years ago.. and I've seen some adds from memory where they were about 200 bux.. even cheaper.

Also custom pulley kit? I know GFB does em for rex's etc.. but any good fitter and turner should be able to make some up.

Can't remember if power steering and a/c was removed?

I think the balance shaft was given the flick wasn't it?

I'm just trying to get the total picture, on what hasn't/has been done.

Also the ignition system.. standard?

One thing I know you aren't running is the bosh super 4 plugs. I've got these in mine, and they make a fair difference, with the actual longevity of the plug, as it has a very good self cleaning effect with the spark jumping sideways. Bosch did tests where the plug lasted longer than 150,000 miles, ie, fired for 150,000 miles without required a voltage increase.

Also the leads.. 10mm? or standard can't remember.

Anyways, I keep getting ideas poppin into my head.. but I keep forgettting to post em, so if I have anymore questions.. hehe i'll b back :)

Are these questions directed at me?

*********************************

With the heads, did you go with oversized valves or standard?
standard valves at the moment, we'll see how long things last

Was the static ratio raised with pistons etc? I can't remember..
Compression is up to 9.2:1 now instead of the 8.5:1, yes I know this will be a minor issue with the turbo but we'll work around it.

And what about an elec water pump? I know these are somewhat expensive, but the most expensive I've seen is 400 bux, and that was three years ago.. and I've seen some adds from memory where they were about 200 bux.. even cheaper.
Used them in the past with little or no effect


Also custom pulley kit? I know GFB does em for rex's etc.. but any good fitter and turner should be able to make some up.
If someone made them, I would try them. I think we've made more than enough custom stuff for the car I can't understand why no-one makes under driven pulleys for the Commodores.

Can't remember if power steering and a/c was removed?
Both were removed although the air con under dash unit is still in the car.

I think the balance shaft was given the flick wasn't it?
Yep, but wouldn't do it again.



Also the ignition system.. standard?
Standard with late model multi coil set-up now with MSD coils


One thing I know you aren't running is the bosh super 4 plugs. I've got these in mine, and they make a fair difference, with the actual longevity of the plug, as it has a very good self cleaning effect with the spark jumping sideways. Bosch did tests where the plug lasted longer than 150,000 miles, ie, fired for 150,000 miles without required a voltage increase.
I use NGK plugs, haven't had much luck with Bosch plugs, tried splitfires but didn't work

Also the leads.. 10mm? or standard can't remember.
9mm leads at the moment, I'm going to have to move the coil packs when the turbo goes on so that will involve using longer leads, probably go bigger then.

[Clinton79]

I think the balance shaft was given the flick wasn't it? Yep, but wouldn't do it again.
Why not Blown VN? What problems have you had?

[blownvn]

The engine is extremely rough running even after being fully balanced. I feel that the deletion of the balance shaft may be to blame.

[Locksmiff]

Originally posted by blownvn
The engine is extremely rough running even after being fully balanced. I feel that the deletion of the balance shaft may be to blame. I have been gather info all info I can find on this. I was wondering can you add to this research for us if thats ok. Is the motor balanced full rotating assembly meaning the whole things weights etc takern into account (mainly the shaft actually).

I am a strong believer it is dependant on a few things and if the maths etc we just did before we decided to answer as they arent based on mine, then the stage 3 cam's extra weight just puts it out of the working use of the shaft in a fully balanced motor and the extra tiny weight the stage 3 has must be enuff to act to a degree as the shaft in itself etc etc etc without rambling for to long.

If its removed regardless of a cam of lower specs, it will virbate. The weight for some fluke must just stay within factory tolerances or something. :confused: I reckon you can blanketly remove it in that basic condition. If its a stage 3 cam, no shaft the rest of the assembly balanced and you shouldnt get that virbation.

I noticed that under those conditions it doesnt appear to exist.

EDIT: I was just thinking and your cam specs have changed again, have they not, I would near bet that if you put the old off the shelf ST3 back in the vibration would be gone again.

EDIT: Another consistant thing in this is the cam brand CROW. so when I say ST3, sorry I mean ST3, ST2 CROW's. It be interesting to see what the other cams do.

[blownvn]

I would lose horsepower through the smalled camshaft though.

[Locksmiff]

Originally posted by blownvn
I would lose horsepower through the smalled camshaft though. Yeah I know, its a catch 22 isn't it :)

[sleeper]

Scott, next time you are up SAS way, take mine for a spin. (they wont be doing anything on it ;) ) mine has no balance shaft and feels smooth once past the cam crappy low rev section. It has all the rattles etc but still smooth motor wise. That may be the miss I felt when you took me for a spin at EC a while back. I was sure it had a miss but your comments do lean me towards the vibration problem.
At least you will be able to compare the two cars with similar mods.

[Locksmiff]

And if you want to try this. I have a guide line that I HAVE to keep the over all weight, so really the cam :D = a stage 2 crows or what the over all engine would = between the 2 minus turbs etc.

If you want to find the weight difference between your old cam and the new cam and remove THAT amount from the shaft. It untried etc might bushman style work :confused:.

It may not if it is all it takes, need to be precisionally done, could in basic forms could be removed with a chisel.