Engine and Driveline

[BRN 084]

The Engine: 3.8L L67 Supercharged V6

The Plan: EVERYTHING!

The engine will be FITted to the max, with everything available (and some things that aren't yet ;)) from Forced Induction Technologies being bolted onto the engine to make some very big power and run some very quick numbers. Once we have gone as far as the FIT gear will allow us (which will be a damn long way!) we will install a cam and ported heads to maximise the potential of the little L67.

We will do the build up in stages, with the first lot of bits from Tony (10psi pulley and 1.97:1 rockers) sitting on my desk as we speak! The engine will be installed shortly using a conversion kit from Pat Gardner at V6 Conversions in Moree, and then will be driven around stock to make sure everything is okay and running fine, as well as to run some base times at WSID. Then we will get into the performance modifications.

Upgrade Path

1) Boost and Rockers
This is the most popular modification with the Super 6 crowd, which will see the pulley replaced with a smaller diameter item for higher boost (10psi) and a set of FIT’s high ratio roller rockers installed. The engine will then be tuned to suit, and the car will be raced to ascertain performance increases.


2) Exhaust and Extractors and Type S CAI
The engine was purchased with Pacemaker extractors already fitted, and a quality 3in exhaust will be fitted to improve the flow, and sound, of the engine. The cold air set-up will be installed to drop the intake charge temp as well, for more power. Tuning and quarter mile times will follow.

3) Intercooler
This is the major upgrade for supercharged V6s, and it is hoped that we will see 11 second quarters from this modification.


4) Ported M90
A specially modified M90 supercharger will be fitted in place of the factory blower, which flows larger amounts of air and allows much larger amounts of boost to be fed into the engine. This will allow the fitment of one of FIT’s small diameter pullies (19-21psi).


5) Race Fuel and Secret Tweaks
10 sec package here we come! The engine will be fed some race fuel and also receive some new products which are currently in development which FIT assures us will see the car into the 10 second zone.

6) Cam and Heads
As a final evolution of the package, an INTENSE racing blower cam and ported heads will be fitted, to really get the Banana up and going.

Transmission

The gearbox backing up the engine will be a 4L60E 4spd automatic

Gearbox built up – toughen it to handle forced induction
Dominator high stall converter – to suit the built engine’s characteristics, probably around 3000rpm


Diff

The current Salisbury diff will be replaced with a 4 pinion Borg Warner differential from a VL Turbo when needed, with LSD and 3.45:1 gears. This will be a simple bolt-in swap, with a re-build done if required.

[dogsballs]

mmm, interesting. surprised you don't stick with the sals diff and add gears and lsd.

[blownvn]

I think it's going to take more to get into the 11's than what you're proposing. Just an opinion of course.

[BRN 084]

mmm, interesting. surprised you don't stick with the sals diff and add gears and lsd.

It is already LSD equipped, so I'll see how it fares once we are giving it some schtick.

I think it's going to take more to get into the 11's than what you're proposing. Just an opinion of course.

I'm just going with what Tony says at this stage. If we can do it, that will be awesome, if not we'll keep going till we do. Of course, it is all just talk until we have the timeslip.

[VXSPR6]

...then will be driven around stock to make sure everything is okay and running fine, as well as to run some base times at WSID

Am I imagining things...looks like the engine already has an aftermarket pulley installed on the blower - hardly call it stock! :) You planning on changing it back to the std 6psi, as fitted from factory to measure "baseline" power & qtr mile times???

[Vee.X]

Am I imagining things...looks like the engine already has an aftermarket pulley installed on the blower - hardly call it stock! :) You planning on changing it back to the std 6psi, as fitted from factory to measure "baseline" power & qtr mile times???


Go read some of his posts.
He says he will be returning it to stock.

Also Ben will you be taking the current motor down the strip for a full comparison or atleast shits and giggles.

[BRN 084]

Am I imagining things...looks like the engine already has an aftermarket pulley installed on the blower - hardly call it stock! :) You planning on changing it back to the std 6psi, as fitted from factory to measure "baseline" power & qtr mile times???

Yes, the pulley on it currently is a 16psi pulley, which is how I purchased it. Here is a pic of the 6psi pulley ready to go back on to return it to standard. It will be a standard spec engine when it is installed.

[BRN 084]

Also Ben will you be taking the current motor down the strip for a full comparison or at least shits and giggles.

I hadn't thought of that! Food for thought :)

[dogsballs]

It is already LSD equipped, so I'll see how it fares once we are giving it some schtick.


my hx has the 10 bolt sals and they supposedly pretty good at least for the times you will be running, they have the 28 spline axles same as the b/w and if its a lsd already then great. diff gears choice is poor though, 2.78, 3.08, 3.3, 3.55, 4.11.

i have to agree with blownvn, 10's is a big call. Look at charg6, that thing was off its head and he only got down to low 11's. people should keep an open mind with some of tony's comments, my 2c.

[BRN 084]

I've just ordered a cam from INTENSE racing in the states today, which will go in as a final development of the engine once all of the FIT gear is on and tested. Went with one of their stage 3 cams, which will be paired with ported heads and a 3000 or thereabouts stally - should be a good thing!

[BRN 084]

The cam arrived yesterday, and looks the goods.

It is a manufactured from a 8620 billet blank, and the specs are as follows:

Duration @ .050": 222º/228º, lobe lifts: .338"/.344", valve lifts with 1.60:1 rocker arms: .541"/.554", lobe separation angle: 115º, intake centerline: 111º

It'll be matched with a pair of modified heads and a high-stall converter when it gets installed after the bolt-on phase is complete. Here is a pic:

[tinka]

this is going to be nutso car ben

[Tonsta V6 S/C]

Things are really starting to gather momentum for this project. It's going to be an incredible outcome with the modifications planned :dancingna

Hey Ben, which Street Comm's Issue no: do you think will start to detail the major plans, theme and other main feature/details be unveiled ?

Regards

Tonsta

[SuperlowVN91]

nice this thing will fly ill watch this build for sure

[BRN 084]

The car made its first appearance in issue 112, which is on stands now, but we hadn't decided on which direction we were going with it yet. Issue 113 has the beginnings of the plans, with the purchase of the engine made. 114 is where we detail the FIT side of things and what will be happening with the car. So, we'll really start to see what the plans are from 114 onwards.

[Tonsta V6 S/C]

Will there be a progress write up every issue or just every 2nd or 3rd issue ?

Which Section will it be featured ... Tech Section ? ... Staff Rides ? ... Other ?

Regards

Tonsta

[BRN 084]

It will be featured in the Staff Garage section in every issue, and when we have completed an upgrade or change we will do tech articles on it as well. It will be seen in the Staff Garage section in each issue at a minimum, but as work increases there will be lots of tech stuff too. I received that other package of goodies too Tony :) Thanks very much!

[TRYPSI]

What are you doing with the 253?

[BRN 084]

It'll either become a handy boat anchor or be sold :) If anyone is interested PM about it.

[MRVNV6]

Should be a good combo when it's done

[VXL67]

cam looks sweet mate!

[the hsv kid]

awesome engine transplant

cant wait till its finished

[Raven]

Looks pretty damn good!

Just don't let it get stolen this time! ;)

[chargedsix]

Looks like its gunna be a cool project. Just one question though are the pacies you have 1 3/4"? It looks like it in the pic but not sure:headscrat
Also What rocker ratio will that nice looking cam be matched with?

[BRN 084]

The Pacies I have are the 1 5/6in ones, I'll go to the bigger ones when the mods get more serious. Not sure on rocker ratios with the cam - I'll be running FIT's 1.97s with the stock cam, and will have to step it back for the cam swap, obviously.

[toranav6]

im running 1.65ratio in mine for now with an xp cam . are you going to be intercooling the motor

[MARVLS]

11s i dont think so bud

[Tonsta V6 S/C]

11s i dont think so bud
We may have you pleasantly suprised ;)

Regards

Tonsta

[chargedsix]

11s i dont think so bud

I dont think 11s are out of the question if the banannas going to pretty much have all the FIT gear on it. There is already some heavy VT/VXs almost cracking the 11s and with some of the stuff these guys are upto it wouldnt suprise me if one of these heavier cars made it into the 11s B4 this project is even half done

[BRN 084]

im running 1.65ratio in mine for now with an xp cam . are you going to be intercooling the motor

Yeah, it'll have a front mount FIT A2A cooler - I'll probably drop back to around that kind of rocker ratio with the cam I think.

11s i dont think so bud

Just stay tuned mate.

I dont think 11s are out of the question if the banannas going to pretty much have all the FIT gear on it. There is already some heavy VT/VXs almost cracking the 11s and with some of the stuff these guys are upto it wouldnt suprise me if one of these heavier cars made it into the 11s B4 this project is even half done

Exactly. Take the same package running low 12s in a VT, add it to a VB and 11s should be a snack.

[FRYMUP]

brn084 did you get that yellow thing fron north richmond caltex?

[the_chef]

hey why dont you put a m112 on and you should be seeing 10s or even 9s :P

check the v6 section of the forum. there has been progress. in a lighter early girl it should flyyyy.

[BRN 084]

brn084 did you get that yellow thing fron north richmond caltex?

Yeah mate I did. It had been for sale for a long, long time from what I hear before I picked it up. It isn't in the best of condition, but I got it for a pretty good price, and it is a good basis for my project.

hey why dont you put a m112 on and you should be seeing 10s or even 9s :P Check the v6 section of the forum. there has been progress. in a lighter early girl it should flyyyy.

When I've gone as far as I can take the M90, I may well go to an M112 and see what it can do then. I'm a regular visitor of the V6 section, it is always a good read! Should be a quick car hopefully!

[BRI22A]

have u looked into the COME stroker kit for it mate? stronger bottom end but will prolly add some serious weight........ be good to try all them things out, will be last time anyone sez, its just a v6 commodore!!!! i cant believe vengeance didnt have that effect

[Tonsta V6 S/C]

Things just got interesting ;)

Dane's ICULKN's car just recorded a 12.009 @ 111mph in a full bodied VT Sedan Street Driven Daily and 11's are just round the corner for this machine :dancingna

Which means it will be easy 11's for the lighter VC Commodore L67 combo :D

Regards

Tonsta

[gjp2002]

Duration @ .050": 222º/228º, lobe lifts: .338"/.344", valve lifts with 1.60:1 rocker arms: .541"/.554", lobe separation angle: 115º, intake centerline: 111º

It'll be matched with a pair of modified heads and a high-stall converter when it gets installed after the bolt-on phase is complete. Here is a pic:

What mods are being made to the heads to accommodate the valve lift?

[BRI22A]

The Engine: 6) Cam and HeadsAs a final evolution of the package, an INTENSE racing blower cam and ported heads will be fitted, to really get the Banana up and going.

^^^^^^^

[BRN 084]

I spoke with Pat Gardner from V6 Conversions today, and he should have the bits and pieces to me by next week. He's been sick for the past few weeks, which has caused the delay - the plan now is to have the car up and running for the Charity Cruise at the end of July. Here's hoping!

[Stiff]

can't wait!! :D:D

[Tonsta V6 S/C]

Whoo hoo :hsdance: ... just saw the write up in Issue 114, now we're getting exctied :dancingna ... shouldn't be long till it's up and running, then we can get into the fun bits :D

Regards

Tonsta

[CJ_JET]

The cam arrived yesterday, and looks the goods.

It is a manufactured from a 8620 billet blank, and the specs are as follows:

Duration @ .050": 222º/228º, lobe lifts: .338"/.344", valve lifts with 1.60:1 rocker arms: .541"/.554", lobe separation angle: 115º, intake centerline: 111º

It'll be matched with a pair of modified heads and a high-stall converter when it gets installed after the bolt-on phase is complete. Here is a pic:


good stuff Ben

But this cam , in my opinion will not work whit higher ratioo 1.97's form FIT
soo you gone go back, to stock ratiooo ?!
Also whats mods are planeed for the L67 heads ?!

can e get a figure of how much they flow stock ?!

and how much the flow after are ported and polished

[BRN 084]

good stuff Ben

But this cam , in my opinion will not work whit higher ratioo 1.97's form FIT
soo you gone go back, to stock ratiooo ?!
Also whats mods are planed for the L67 heads ?!

can e get a figure of how much they flow stock ?!

and how much the flow after are ported and polished

That cam will obviously be too much with the FIT 1.97 rockers, so I'll drop back to probably 1.7:1 rockers. This will be once we have gone as far as possible with all of the FIT products to demonstrate just how far you can take all of the bolt-on products.

In regard to the heads, I'll leave those modifications up to the head specialist when the time comes - they will be machined for valve clearance, but as far as the rest, I will let them come up with a combo to suit the cam and other engine specs. We will definitely let everyone know what the flow figures are when it all happens.

[BECS]

we have the same cam for becs and some stage 4 heads , It will be good to see this set up in your car,

[vnformula]

Will be good to see what sort of power will be picked up from doing the heads + cams, i was leaning towards the intense stg4 head a cam package but just might weight and see how u all go, Any results yet becs?

[BECS]

Will be good to see what sort of power will be picked up from doing the heads + cams, i was leaning towards the intense stg4 head a cam package but just might weight and see how u all go, Any results yet becs?
No not yet still playing in unopened class ,

[CJ_JET]

I've just ordered a cam from INTENSE racing in the states today, which will go in as a final development of the engine once all of the FIT gear is on and tested. Went with one of their stage 3 cams, which will be paired with ported heads and a 3000 or thereabouts stally - should be a good thing!


Ben . is that cam for boosted and intercoooled super 6's ?!
and u need a tune if do cam and heads ......:headscrat
i guess will go in aftre the car gets cooler ....? mafless ?!

[YLD29T]

Are you using the standard ECU ?
caus in the pics it looks like you are

[BRN 084]

Ben . is that cam for boosted and intercoooled super 6's ?!

and u need a tune if do cam and heads ......

i guess will go in aftre the car gets cooler ....? mafless ?!

Yes, the cam is a specific blower grind from Intense Racing in the states. The car will be tuned at each stage to maximise the potential gain from each modification, and that includes the eventual head and cam upgrade.

I think a Mafless tune will be the go to get the full potential.

Are you using the standard ECU ?
caus in the pics it looks like you are

Yes, it will be custom tuned to suit each combo.

[VG304]

[QUOTE=BRN 084]The cam arrived yesterday, and looks the goods.

It is a manufactured from a 8620 billet blank, and the specs are as follows:

Duration @ .050": 222º/228º, lobe lifts: .338"/.344", valve lifts with 1.60:1 rocker arms: .541"/.554", lobe separation angle: 115º, intake centerline: 111º

It looks like Intense have the "runs on the board" but why a US cam and not a local Australian company? Isn't this cam smaller then the "Vengence" cam? I seem to recall that it was 234/240 with lifts of 0.545/0.550.

[lukemorrison]

have u looked into the COME stroker kit for it mate? stronger bottom end but will prolly add some serious weight........ be good to try all them things out, will be last time anyone sez, its just a v6 commodore!!!! i cant believe vengeance didnt have that effect

v6 vengence had that effect on me brian,all that let it down was apperance

[BRN 084]

Guys, my parts arrived from Pat Gardner at V6 Conversions today, and they look great. What arrived was a K-frame, gearbox crossmember, full wiring harness, BCM Simulator and a handy booklet of instructions. I can highly recommend the quality of the product out of V6 Conversions, it all looks absolutely top-notch.

Now I've just got to organise a VN Steering Rack, VL Intermediate shaft (so I can fit extractors) and the fuel system bits and pieces and I'll get this motor in and running! Fingers crossed we might have it done by the end of September. Here are some pics of all the bits -

[Nige]

Looking good Ben, can't wait to see how the budgie goes

[MAD SV6]

looking good cant wait to see what times it puts done

[VTL67]

hurry up and finish it already! :p jk

cant wait till shes done and running the quarter ;) :D :D

[DEVLYLO]

wow this thing should really move

[BECS]

How is it all going ???????????????????????

[BRN 084]

Slowly!!!

Much slower than I ever anticipated, or expected. The engine isn't in yet, but should be (all going to plan) in the next few weeks. I'm moving house this coming week, so once everything has settled there, I'll get stuck into the car.

Hopefully will have a running Banana by the end of October. That's the plan anyway.

[MAD SV6]

well i wish you luck it took me bout 3 months to sort the house out after i moved in just getting fully back into now 6 months later mind you im doing all hte work myself so takes longer to start with

[sands vs]

ANY UPDATES???

[jenkos]

well ben, we're nearing the end of november,
tell me you have the motor in now?

jenkos

[vnformula]

Thought u would have beaten me but mine is going in sat :hsdance: should be runing next weekend

[vxss_300]

I would love to see if it can better the time vengence did, i reccon it would have a hard time trying to keep up with it. Especally with the launch, vengence would nearly on full boost if it was on the converter at the launch, as the banna would have to wait till it hit redline for full boost.
Are you goin to have some 15X8s for this as well?

[Tonsta V6 S/C]

Thanks vxss_300 - Vengeance definitely was an awesome project and marked the real turning point of recognition of the V6's in the performance scene. The Turbo V6 was definitely quite a weapon.

With this project sporting the M90 S/C Intercooled L67 Supercharged Engine and and every Bolt-on we can throw at it will have 11's in the bag without even trying.

There are M90 Super6's already doing 11's in VT's and with the VB/VC chassis being so much lighter we're setting our benchmark/goals at 10's ;)

Madly Boosted-Up Hard-Spun M90's hit Full Boost at 1,200-1,400rpm and Hold this Boost till Redline, so this Bannana Project will get close to lifting a wheel off the line hopefully :D

This will definitely be an easy 11sec car with 10's certainly in sight ;)

Best Regards

Tonsta

[Wretched]

and we say BRING IT ON!

[VN2VY]

we sure do we also say hurry up god dammit! ;) haha nice work.

[SMOKNEM]

Any updates yet?

[Wretched]

hurrying to finish two issues of the mag before xmas, so most work is on hold...

[harta123]

were now in february.

hows progress boys?

[BRN 084]

Motor is about to go in. Organising engine management as we speak. Have decided to install T56 six-speed manual instead of 4L60E, so organsing that at the moment too. We'll let you know as soon as it all comes together.

An exhaust and type-s cold-ait are on their way from FIT right now to facillitate installation, and then we should be crusing.

[Ricardo-FK]

Motor is about to go in. Organising engine management as we speak. Have decided to install T56 six-speed manual instead of 4L60E, so organsing that at the moment too. We'll let you know as soon as it all comes together.

An exhaust and type-s cold-ait are on their way from FIT right now to facillitate installation, and then we should be crusing.

T56 sweet as mate thats what i want! I've heard as far as tuning goes that the car would have better perforance with a MAF in place, but i guess it just depends. How much will the T56 set you back? Also what size intercooler are you installing? With everything going well i should be into the very low 12's or even 11's:dancingna . Are you planning to go nos at all? Be sweet to have the banana flogging a few 8's:D Hope it all goes well man keep us posted!

Regards
Ricardo

[Ricardo-FK]

Ok i got a stupid question about Torque Converters. If you have 1 installed at say 3000rpm, does that mean for highway driving the car will sit at or around 3000rpm when in say 3rd or 4th gear? Hope i'm not confusing any1 with my question. Thanks guys

Ricardo

[Sleek Geek]

Have decided to install T56 six-speed manual instead of 4L60E

:D Hell Yeah :D Your living the dream :cool:

Now the pressure will be on you & your driving skill for good quarter times :o

[jkmatt]

Any specific reason why you brought a K-Frame from a conversion specialist....

[BRN 084]

Hey jkmatt,

Whilst I know you can do it with a VN k-frame, I decided to go with a V6conversions set-up as it is a completely reco-ed frame. And with Pat as an advertiser, it made good sense to get all the necessary parts from one place, rather than many.

[commonut]

G'day Ben, its the 4th of the 4th, is it in yet, the suspence is killin me

[SLASHE]

hey mate think again it is the 4th of the 3rd

[commonut]

hey mate think again it is the 4th of the 3rd
woops sorry

[EM1998]

NO news?

[BRN 084]

Hey Guys,

Just trying to get the money together for the T56 conversion (it's exxy!), and we've been planning to get the motor in for weeks, but haven't had a free weekend to do it. This coming weekend is out due to shows, and the following one is out first Roadshow to Taree, so finding the time is a bugger.

I just want it on the road for Charity Cruise. That's my goal now, and there's no reason why it can't be done.

[jenkos]

where are you getting the T56 conversion from, .
coz there is a place in WA 'Chevtorque' who are curently producing a bell housing to suit the T56 on a L67, he also produces a nodular iron Fly wheel.
does it all for quiet a resonable price so it seems as well. . well cheaper than another well known place.

cheers
Jenkos

Ps, cant wait to see this bannana fly.

[BRN 084]

Really? Interesting. How much is a reasonable price?

[Tonsta V6 S/C]

Heya Ben,

The anticipation :p

Maybe it might be good to get it going with the auto for the moment then change to manual T56 down the track, this will help to keep current costs down to a minimum. Who knows MAL may even "donate" one once he see's what the car is capable of ;)

Best Regards

Tonsta

[BRN 084]

Aha, there's an issue with that one Tony! The auto box that once was bolted to my L67 now resides behind the blown six in Chris's Project Seagull!

I'm chatting to Chevtorque at the moment to see what's happening with it all, so I'll keep you all in the loop where I can.

[Tonsta V6 S/C]

:p ... from todays email we think Chris maybe knocking on your door again very soon to ask if he can "borrow" another of the FIT's Goodies you have allocated for your machine :D ... ;)

Great to hear the ChevTorque T56 Option !!

Best Regards

Tonsta

[jenkos]

Really? Interesting. How much is a reasonable price?

he only supplies the bell housing ($700) and the flywheel,
cant remember the price on the flywheel, but was cheaper than mals conversion.
have seen the rest of the gear sell on ebay anywhere from $1500-$3000 depending on codition, and day. .
so you could easily do the conversion of under 5k


jenkos

[vnrockit]

i think it would be good to see it run with the auto then the t56 to see what improvement it offers

[BRN 084]

i think it would be good to see it run with the auto then the t56 to see what improvement it offers

You know what mate? You've predicted the future!

I've actually made moves this week to install an auto behind the engine, with the manual to come later on.

The engine conversion starts on Monday! Hoorah!

[CJ_JET]

finnally some work on the BANANA :)
cant wait to see soem 400m action ....

[stoney]

mondays nearly over mr nightingale.. the car is still nowhere to be seen ;)